Original submission by Jacks:
- 1 Starters:
- 1.1 Starter Motor Description:
- 1.2 Interchangeability Of Red/Blue/Back Six Cylinder Starters:
- 1.3 Troubleshooting:
- 1.4 A Screech Occurs When I Try to Crank the Engine:
- 1.5 Dismantling the Starter Motor:
- 1.6 Summing Up
- 1.7 Starter Models Per Car:
- 1.8 V8 Starters:
- 1.9 Links:
- 1.10 Terms:
Starter Motor Description:
The 4 Brush Starter Motor is a little different in the details as described here but in theory can be used as advised in the 2 Brush Starter Motor listed below.
Interchangeability Of Red/Blue/Back Six Cylinder Starters:
By hushtech 27/06/16@09:16 4035
Yes they are all interchangeable, however the commodore for memory are shorter, therefore good with extractors because of lack of room. End of submission by Hushtech.
More starter images are in Jacks' shed under Starters .
The Starter Doesn't Activate in the Start Position:
See the Starter Test Image on this page.
A Screech Occurs When I Try to Crank the Engine:
Weak Battery, Poor Starter Plate
Submitted by T on Sat, 16/06/2007 - 09:04.
The screech noise occurs due to teeth that have been stripped from starter ring gear in one of the three locations that a 6 cylinder engine always stops.
Sometimes the original starterplate was weak and other times it's caused by the engine being in poor tune with a weak battery. With a weak Battery, every time the engine gets near TDC the battery craps out and weakens the ignition making it harder to start.
At the same time the starter gear jumps in and out because there is insufficient power to hold it engaged and the starter pinion successfully tears the teeth out of the starter plate as it does so. A workarond is to activate the Starter for 1 second then release the Key. Wait until any sound from the Starter has stopped, then do a normal start. You may need to do the 1 second long burst 2 or 3 times if the Starter Plate or Ring-Gear is very worn. T
End of submission by T.
The Starter Solenoid Just Clicks:
This is a very common fault which is most often caused by high resistance in the Electrical System.
Dim Lights Cranky Starters
for circuit faults.
Battery Terminals must be clean, tight and covered with Electrical Grease.
The circuit from the starter switch can become resistive and fail to provide the Starter Solenoid with enough current to activate correctly and this causes the click. This situation is best fixed by fitting a starter relay. See your autosparky. Another common cause of a clicking solenoid is Starter Motor brushes on their way out.
The car's Earths are critical as well. Look in Dim Lights Cranky Starters
for further details on Earths and cabling.
If all this stuff checks out, then troubleshoot your Starter. You don't want to replace a perfect Starter because the car's Electrical Leads were due for retirement.
The Engine Kicks Back:
Often the Starter gets blamed for an excessively advanced Ignition timing.
Also modern fuels, particularly Premium Un-Leaded Petrol can be ignited by glowing spark plug electrodes
under hot cranking even when the ignition is turned off causing the Engine to kick back.
The workaround is to flood the Engine by pressing the accelerator pedal 3 or 4 times, then perform a flooded start. The excess fuel will quench any glowing surfaces.
The excessive advance may be caused by loose and worn out Balance Weights inside the Distributor.
As a test and with the Ignition turned off, remove the Coil wire from the centre of the Distributor and tie it to earth with wire. Then crank the Engine. If the Engine cranks normally, there is excessive advance which will have to be remedied. This problem may be caused by a worn out Distributor.
Starter Motor Growling Out
Starter motor not turning very fast sound/feels like flat battery, bad connection or even the lights start to dim out, feels like shorting out.
Remove the Battery Leads, then remove the wires from the Solenoid Switch, taking note of what comes from what and what goes on to what connection, then remove the holding bolts of the Starter Motor Body connected to the Bell Housing.
Dismantling the Starter Motor:
Once you have removed the end plate, check the bronze bushes in both ends,
as the bushes have very thin walls and since the motor is near the exhaust system
the bushes can dry out, these bushes are “ Oil Impregnate Bushes��? and can chop out when dry, usually just on one side of the bush, as a rule, it's usually the drive end (the end bolted to the bell housing)as its not protected and gets all the dust etc from the clutch plate, as well as the heat.
To Replace Them:
Will only cost a few dollars for new ones, also if the carbon brushes are worn, then replace them as well, these are only a few dollars more, and can be sought from any good auto electrician,
As these Bronze bushes are self impregnated with oil, it's best to let them soak in light engine oil for 24 hrs or 2 hours if the oil is hot,100c
There is a quicker method that I use, balance the bush end on your thumb print, fill the bush with oil then with the forefinger and thumb, squeeze so the oil starts to come out the sides of the bush, best to repeat (3 times).
Don’t forget to check the other end, if the bush is not worn, then it's still a good idea to oil that bush as well.
Don’t ever ream the bushes out as it will impair the porosity of the bush and will cause early failure
Hold armature in vise jaws with soft wood or heavy cardboard, not to tight, don't want to crush the stamping on the armature, then with a long strip of v/fine emery cloth/paper, loop it over the copper/commutator then holding the ends of the emery cloth/paper, in each hand work up and down like a see saw effect, just enough to clean/polish the commutator, turn the shaft 1/4 turn and repeat till all done.
Next, clean the rubbish out of the commutator slots, use tooth pick, or match stick,(copper with slots that brushes run on)check the carbon Brushes as well, and blow all the dust out of the yoke casing etc,
If no air compressor use a length of small diameter plastic /rubber tube and blow ,watch your eyes, ok,
Now its all been put back together again, you did take note on what went where, best to take pics as you go as you never know when the misses calls you and the time you get back , well say no more. Yes, digital pics the way to go, will save ,time , memory, frustration etc.
So by doing some early maintenance from time to time it will save you the trouble later on , as breaking down on the highway or away from the work shop, can be darn annoying. And may save you a few dollars,
See Jacks Sheds for pics on [starters] and part details on the 4 Brush Starter Motor for L6 Engine, have also added pics and details of the four brush Bosch Starter Motor,the principles are mainly the same as the Lucas.
Bosch v Lucus
Main difference being, in revs not under load , the Lucas does 8,500 rpm and the Bosh 7,200 rpm,
Engine cranking speed
Is 120 rpm for both.
Starter Motors Lucas and Bosch
Starter motors on all series are basically the same in their operating principles, however they do change in construction between makes and models for the various series.
From 1948 to 1953 they were equipped with the 6 volt system, and all subsequent series have the 12 volt system.
Listed below are a few facts and specifications that might help you.
The solenoid switch is attached to the starter.
When the solenoid windings are energized, there’s a plunger that activates a lever and pivot. That then in turn engages the drive pinion onto the flywheel ring gear, and at the same time, closes the switch supplying the power from the positive lead off the battery to the starter motor field coils to operate the starter motor.
The overriding clutch plays an important roll as it prevent the high speed rotation of the starter motor. Also the solenoid windings are not immediately de-energized by releasing the push button or the key switch.
Never wash the drive assembly clutch in solvent as it will destroy the clutch lubricant and cause early failure of the unit.
Check the condition of the commutator, you can polish with a strip of fine emery paper , clean out the dirt/dust slots with a tooth pick or match, if need be undercut on a lathe but do not undercut the mica insulation between the commutator .
To adjust the drive pinion engaged connect the positive lead of the battery to the battery terminal on the solenoid and disconnect the connector from the other terminal on the solenoid to the starter field terminal.
Connect a jumper lead from the battery terminal on the solenoid to the starter button switch terminal on the solenoid relay, and earth the other terminal of the relay.
Earth the other lead of the battery to the starter frame and push the solenoid plunger in by hand.
With the plunger held in this position by the hold-in coil on the solenoid, adjust the plunger adjusting screw so that there is 1/8��? between the inner face of the drive end bracket bearing boss and the face of the drive pinion, with the pinion assembly held in lightly to remove all the slack from the plunger linkage.
If this dimension is not correct ,adjust by screwing the link in or out of the solenoid plunger as necessary, disconnect the battery and restore the original connections.
To adjust the drive pinion engaged connect a 6 volt battery and switch in series with the field terminal on the starter motor body and the small screw on the solenoid.
Bring the drive pinion to the engaged position by closing the test switch and then lightly press the pinion towards the released position to take up any slack in the engaging lever mechanism
Measure the distance from the engaging face of the pinion to the mounting flange face of the drive end bracket, the measurement of 5/8��? pinion face to mounting flange with pinion engaged.
If adjustment is necessary, loosen the lock nut on the engaging lever eccentric pivot pin the pin in the required direction to obtain the correct setting
The arrow on the slotted end of the pivot pin and the range of the adjustment available,
Then after adjustment tighten the eccentric pin nut.
Disconnect the test battery and switch
Do not use a higher voltage than 6 volts in order to avoid over heating the closing wining of the solenoid so carry out the rest as quickly as possible.
to adjust solenoid pull rod clevis, energize the hold-in winding of the solenoid so the solenoid plunger will be held in the engaged position. To do this, connect the positive terminal of a 12 volt battery to the small switch terminal of the solenoid and the negative terminal of the battery to the solenoid body. Note use a 6 volt battery where the system is 6 volts.
Measure the distance from the centre of the pull rod clevis pin to the face of the solenoid mounting flange.
Submission by Jacks.
Starter Models Per Car:
||Starter Model||Adjustment Notes|
|48/215||Delco Remy||1109601||Solenoid pull rod adjustment : Adjust to obtain 1/8 “between bearing face and end pinion.|
|FJ||Bosch : Make and Model : Bosch : EEDO.4/6R||Bosch : Make and Model : Bosch : EEDO.4/6R||Solenoid pull rod length, centre of link pin to attaching plate : 1- 9/32��? with solenoid plunger fully engaged.|
|FE, FC||Bosch||EEDO.8/12R||Solenoid pull rod length, centre of link pin to attaching plate : 1- 9/32��? with solenoid plunger fully engaged.|
|FB, EK, EJ||Bosch||EEDO.8/12R37||Solenoid pull rod length, centre of link pin to attaching plate. 1- 9/32��? with solenoid plunger fully engaged.|
|FB, EK, EJ||Lucas||M 35G||Adjustment, solenoid lever pivot pin : 5/8��? pinion face to mounting flange face with pinion engaged|
|EH||Bosch||EEDO.8/12R52 (149) AL/EGF 1/2R13 (179)|
|HD, HR||Bosch||EEDO.8/12R52 (149) AL/EGF 1/2R13 (179)|
|HD, HR||Lucas||Adjustment : Lucas Solenoid lever eccentric pivot pin, .010��? from pinion face to shaft collar with pinion fully engaged.|
|HD, HR||Bosch||EEDO.8/12R52 (149) AL/EGF 1/2R13 (179)||* Only HR Series vehicles are equipped with Bosch Starter model U-GF-R-12VIPS.|
See Jacks Sheds for pics on starters and part details on the 4 Brush Starter Motor L6 Engine, cheers Jacks.