Celica 5 Speed into old Holden
Page created by Qute May 22nd 2005:
==Celica 5 Speed into Old Holden:==
===What do I need to do to put a Cast Iron Celica 5 Speed into my Old Holden with a 6 Cylinder Motor?===
(Submitted by Qute)
Note: This is an overview/guide only and assumes that you have some mechanical knowledge/ability. If you do not have a safe place to work or the required equipment to do this, it is much safer (and quite possibly cheaper) to pay someone with the tools/knowledge/experience to do this for you. Of course, you can always ask if you can assist/observe to learn what has to be done.
These boxes came out behind 2 litre motors in rear wheel drive Toyota Celica/Corona (and possibly other) cars in the late 70’s and early 80’s. They are tougher than the Alloy Celica boxes that came out behind the 1600cc motors and are also tougher than the Aussie 4 speeds. Compared to the Holden 6 cyl boxes of the time, they also have a far better shifter, better spread of ratios and on overdriven 5th gear. If you want a tougher box again, get a Supra or Supra Turbo box (these last 2 are highly recommended for V8’s with their greater torque output).
===What do I need to Get?===
A gearbox (obviously) complete with shifter/gearstick/rear mount/front section of tail-shaft. Be careful with exactly which gearbox you get as there are several shifter positions available in these boxes. Try to get one with the shifter about 2 or 3 inches (50 – 75mm) in front of the rear end of the extension housing. The gear-stick will then come up through the original hole in your floor.
A conversion Bell-housing that is suitable for your clutch mechanism type (pushrod or pull-cable type). If using some conversion bellhousings with a pushrod type clutch mechanism, you will need a Holden V8 clutch fork as the input shaft bearing on a Celica cast iron 5 speed is a LOT bigger than the Holden 6 equivalent. You MAY also need to use a V8 fork for the cable/pull type clutches but I haven’t done a conversion using this clutch type, so I don’t know. The company you get the bellhousing from should be able to advise on this anyway. Apparently, the Dellow and CRS bellhousings allow the use of the standard 6 cylinder Holden clutchfork, making this conversion VERY easy.
A conversion Speedo Cable.
Additional Speedo cable information:
HZute-efi-VS5L on Sat, 26/07/2008 - 07:44.
I have seen this question come up often.
"what speedo cable suits a HQ-WB etc with a supra/celica box."
dont wate your coin buying one from castlemain rod shop etc for $100. there is a toyota speedo cable that fits perfect. lenght is correct. both ends are correct.
the speedo cable i used is to suit a HiLux 4 speed 4WD 2.2Lt Diesel.
Toyota part number is 83710-95117. then in texta on the old sticker on the packet it has 33615. not to sure if that one means anything.
I sugest everyone with a supra box in a old holden write it down =). You can buy them on ebay for about $30 i believe brand new...
Possibly a Speedo conversion/reduction box (don’t get this until after you have the gearbox in your car and working).
A conversion Spigot bush.
A new clutch-plate, Pressure-plate and Thrust Bearing. The clutch-plate can be one for a 1.8 litre diesel Lite-ace van (same outside diameter as a Red 6, same inside diameter/splines as a Celica) or a Celica Clutch-plate if you are using a Blue-motor flywheel/pressure-plate. Have a look through your local friendly autoshop’s clutch-plate listing book and find a Toyota one that is the same as a Celica in the middle and the same outside diameter as your original clutch plate. The pressure-plate will be the standard one for the flywheel you are using. The Thrust-bearing is the standard Holden one for your clutch mechanism type as the input shaft on the Celica box is the same diameter as a Holden 6!
Possibly a conversion gearbox crossmember.
Plus a few normal workshop tools – Assorted spanners, assorted sockets, assorted screwdrivers, etc, a jack, jackstands (preferably 4 of them), some grease, some gearbox oil, a measuring tape, a drill, a jigsaw (helpful but you can get around the need for a jigsaw).
===How do I do it?===
On hard and level ground (ideally on concrete), jack up your car and place it on jackstands front and rear. Make sure the jackstands are stable and your car will not tip/roll off them. I usually put them under the front crossmember and the rear axle tube as widely spaced as I can reasonably get them.
Remove starter motor.
Support the rear of the motor with a piece of wood on top of a jack so you can let the rear of the motor down in a controlled fashion when you have removed the gearbox crossmember.
Remove old tail-shaft and gearbox including shifter.
Remove flex-plate (if your car was an auto) or remove flywheel if you are going to put a Blue Motor flywheel in (optional).
Remove Spigot Bush (if fitted). Either use a slide hammer for this (be very careful not to damage the inside of the rear of the crankshaft) or fill the current bush with grease, find a piece of wood (dowel) that just fits inside the current bush and knock it in with small taps of a hammer. This will force the bush out by use of hydraulic pressure. If the bush doesn’t come all the way out on the first attempt, remove the dowel and fill the bush with grease again and have another go.
Insert new Spigot Bush into crank being careful to make sure it is square.
Remount flywheel (if removed earlier). Make sure the flywheel face is flat and true. This would be a good time to have it skimmed and/or lightened….
Assemble clutch/pressure plate onto flywheel.
Assemble bell-housing onto gearbox.
Remove the gearstick and install gearbox to motor.
Measure and modify (or install conversion) crossmember. The Cast Iron Celica gearbox mount is 40mm further forward and 40 mm lower than an Aussie 4 speed gearbox. Also, Holden red motors “lean back��? at about a 3 degree angle. Make sure your motor leans back by about this amount when you determine the position of your new mounting for the gearbox.
Insert the Celica yoke into the rear of the gearbox until it gently seats. Measure the distance from the centre of the universal joint cup on the front yoke to the same place at the diff yoke. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE WEIGHT OF THE CAR ON THE REAR SUSPENSION AT THIS POINT SO THE REAR WHEELS ARE SITTING AT THEIR NORMAL HEIGHT IN RELATION TO YOUR CAR’S BODY, OR YOUR TAILSHAFT WILL BE TOO LONG/SHORT FOR YOUR CAR! Usually, you deduct 25mm from this measurement to allow for rear axle movement up and down.
Take your original tailshaft and the Celica front bit of tailshaft to an engineering place and give them the dimension that you measured above. Make sure you tell them if you have or have not taken the 25mm off the measurement already. Have the two tailshafts joined and balanced.
Install new universal joints at both ends (Celica front and Holden rear).
Install clutch mechanism. You may want to change to a hydraulic clutch setup and experiment with master cylinder and slave cylinder sizes to find a good balance between weight and feel in the clutch pedal. A good brake shop should be able to advise you on the choice of master and slave cylinder sizes.
Remove old speedo cable and install new one (Holden top end/Japanese bottom end).
Hook up reversing light wires onto the switch on the passenger's side/outside of the gearbox.
Fill gearbox with new Oil (to the level of the drain plug…usually using a 1 litre gearbox oil container and a length of garden hose).
Install starter motor.
Install gearstick/rubber boot/console as appropriate. You may want to shorten and/or bend the gearstick so it clears your console and is the right height for your car. The one I did in an LJ Torana ended up about 150 – 200 mm long…it was great! This is where you may need the jigsaw…if you are changing from a column change to a floor change, you will need to cut a neat hole in your floor that doesn’t cut any strengthening ribs.
Check that you can get all gears.
Recheck all nuts/bolts are tightened to the correct torque.
Install flywheel/clutch cover.
Remove car from jackstands (remember to remove the rear stands first and to have your handbrake on so the car does not roll away while you are removing the stands from the other end!
Take car for test drive. While driving, assess the speedo reading against your tacho (or a mate who has an accurate speedo). When you have worked out what percentage your speedo now reads high or low, go to an automotive instrument company and have a reduction box made so your speedo reads correctly.
==Fitting W50 Celica 5 speed to a WB==
Although the information above is correct for most people, the Holden WB series was a special case.
There are some important pieces of information that are usually ommited or forgotten about.
You must make sure that you have a bell housing that will suit the holden blue clutch! Many of the older bell housing castings were not designed to house the larger Holden blue clutch and pressure plate assembly. If you attempt to fit the wrong clutch assembly, you will be sadly dissapointed to find out the gearbox needs to come back out and that the pressure plate will not hesitate to remove alloy from the inside of the bell housing. To fix this you will need to replace the flywheel, pressure plate and clutch plate for the smaller Holden red parts, or alternatively look for the right bell housing.
You may also have problems with the outside edge of clutch the clutch plate rubbing on the inside of the pressure plate. You can either get the edge machined/beveled/chamfered when you get it balanced, or you can put up with it for a couple of days as the edge wears off. It is recommended that if you do choose to put up with it, be smart about it. It will only rub when the clutch is thrown and in gear. Doing things such as double clutching every time you change down gears, take it out of gear when waiting at the lights, using the synchros on one of the taller gears (4 or 5) before trying to put it into first or reverse to take off.
Toyota W50 gearbox
Dellow/CRS Bell housing (to suit blue clutch)
Dellow/CRS Crossmember adapter
Dellow/CRS Cable clutch bracket
Hardy Spicer Spigot bush
Hardy Spicer Conversion Yoke
Hardy Spicer V8 Universal joints
Holden Inspection cover
Holden Red Throw out bearing
Holden Red Clutch fork
Bell housing bolts
Clutch aligning tool (optional)
If you have not obtained the right bell housing the conversion is still possible, but you will also require the following
Holden Red Flywheel
Holden Red Pressure plate
Toyota Dyna Clutch plate